Nemonte Nenquimo: Listen to the voices of the Amazon Rainforest (Ep448)

Written By kamea chayne
“Do you choose to live in joy and harmony, protecting your roots and identity? Or do you choose to lose yourself in a world of sickness, ego, power and money?”
— Nemonte Nenquimo

What has been the historical relationship between missionary work and the development of the oil industry in the Ecuadorian Amazon? What does it mean to listen to the voices — both human and more-than-human — of the Amazon Rainforest?

And how does the Waorani community navigate tensions between their Indigenous ways of life and the outside world’s growing influence on their younger generations?

For our special Earth Month feature, we are honored to share our powerful conversation with Waorani leader Nemonte Nenquimo — who recently co-authored We Will Be Jaguars with her partner, Mitch Anderson.

How do we recenter our perspectives of “modern” on communities who are, in this modern day, most in tune with the languages of Mother Earth — and reorient our ideals of “futuristic” towards all that enrich and affirm life?

We invite you to…

 

About our guest:

Nemonte Nenquimo, a Waorani leader, was born in Ecuador’s Amazon, one of the most bio-diverse and threatened rainforests on the planet. She is the co-founder of both the Indigenous-led nonprofit Ceibo Alliance and its partner organization, Amazon Frontlines. Nemonte led her people in an historic legal victory, protecting half a million acres of rainforest from oil and setting a precedent for Indigenous rights across the region. Her leadership has been widely recognized; in 2020, she won the Goldman Environmental Prize for Central and South America and the United Nations’ Champions of the Earth Award. Nemonte was also named in the BBC’s 100 Women list, the TIME list of the 100 Most Influential People in the World, the TIME 100 Climate list, and is an honoree of the 2024 TIME Earth Awards. She is also a member of The Earthshot Prize Council. 

She is the co-author of her acclaimed memoir We Will Be Jaguars (US) / We Will Not Be Saved (UK), written with her husband and Amazon Frontlines co-founder Mitch Anderson, and published by Abrams in the USA and Wildfire in the UK.

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interview transcript

Note: This transcript was created with translation support from Amazon Frontlines. The English voiceover for Nemonte Nenquimo’s original responses in Spanish was done by Nathalie Kelley. Please view this transcript as a reference only — as an open invitation to dive deeper into each resource and topic explored.

Nemonte Nenquimo: [In Spanish, with English voiceover by Nathalie Kelley]

Since I was a child, I remember growing up between two worlds. The evangelicals came to our territory and my community, and I remember them talking about “saving the soul”.

The missionaries dismissed our beliefs, rituals, way of life, and cosmovision as if they had no value. To them, only the knowledge of white evangelicals mattered.

So, I grew up between these two worlds, feeling both confused and curious, but also full of joy and curiosity. I was surrounded by my uncles, aunts, and grandparents, who practiced our culture of healing with plants, hunting, rituals, and music. As a child, I kept questioning, “What is truly important?” What have my people, ancestors, grandmothers, aunts, and family carried for generations? Or what were the white outsiders telling us was important?

From a young age, I was navigating these two worlds. I grew up searching for the truth, trying to understand. But over time, I realized that what truly mattered was our way of life—having our territory, knowledge, identity, language, and our culture. That was what was truly important. That’s why I try to tell the world, the title of my book, We Will Not Be Saved, is a statement. Too often, outsiders come with the idea of "saving" Indigenous people, seeing us as helpless, thinking they need to help us.

Oil companies came to our lands, speaking of "development," saying oil extraction would solve poverty, making promises of a better future. But instead, they caused harm, pollution, and destruction. Even today, the contamination remains. Even today, Indigenous peoples, including the Waorani, continue to face cultural disconnection and the loss of knowledge.

And then there are the big NGOs and even governments that come and say, “We’re going to protect this territory”. But in the end, they often make things worse. They take our land from us. I have lived through this, and that’s why I tell this story.

Too often, outsiders arrive with ignorance, believing they know more than Indigenous peoples, thinking they can "save” us.

But that’s not how it works. What needs to happen is simple: listen and respect Indigenous peoples. True understanding comes from within, from recognizing the deep roots of our cosmovision, our way of seeing the world.

For over 500 years, colonization has erased cultures and languages, not just in my territory, but all over the world— from the United States to Europe. They came with the same mindset, bringing their religions and exterminating Indigenous ways of life. I grew up in this reality, and that is the story I tell. I saved myself. I reconnected with my ancestors. I learned to love Mother Earth again. And from that deep connection, I found my purpose.

In my book, I speak with clarity, honesty, and power, through my voice as a Waorani woman. I share my perspective, truth, way of seeing and connecting with the world.

Kamea Chayne: What more can you tell us about this idea of oral storytelling to keep stories alive and what that means to you? And what was your thought process as you deviated from this format to write this book with Mitch, and consequently move away from maintaining that mystery as power to make your story widely available to move and shift the world?

Nemonte Nenquimo: [In Spanish, with English voiceover by Nathalie Kelley]

Working alongside other Indigenous nations, I have seen the threats that come from the outside, threats that also reach my territory. And when we achieved our historic victory, which was the first of its kind, it became clear that our story needed to be told. Writing this book was necessary.

My father and the elders from different nations would say, "When the outside world does not understand something, it destroys it.”

That was the challenge I faced. A long and difficult struggle that lasted nine, ten years, across different movements and fronts. Writing this book was necessary.

But this is not the kind of story written by an anthropologist who visits for a month or six months, studies our lives, and then presents their conclusions. This story comes from lived experience. My partner, Mitch, is also an activist who has worked and lived with Indigenous peoples. He witnessed the same threats that reached my territory.

Writing this book was very important. My father told me, “Daughter, write so the world will listen and learn to respect us.” He also shared wisdom with me. He said, “When you walk through the forest, you must hide your footsteps. You never return the same way, so your enemies cannot follow you home.” This book is sacred and deeply special to me.

My partner and I created it in the way of my ancestors, through oral storytelling. Just as my elders passed down knowledge through spoken word, this book was born from an oral process. It was a beautiful experience, retelling my memories, returning to my childhood, my father, my mother, my siblings, my family. It felt like rescuing and reliving those moments.

We didn’t rely on notebooks and recordings alone. It wasn’t just a story told once. It was built over the years, through deep connection with my people and other Indigenous nations. I believe this book is necessary and deeply important, especially for those who do not know the rainforest, who do not know Indigenous peoples, who have never understood our cosmovision. This book is my story, but it is also the story of my people and the story of the Amazon.

Through my book, these ideas, perspectives, and experiences are shared from the voice and vision of an Indigenous [Waorani] woman speaking to the world.

It is essential that the world hears and shares this story. It reaches thousands of people, and even those in power, like corporations and governments, so they can read it and learn to respect Indigenous peoples. This book was created in two parts, together with my partner, and the process of writing it was something truly special. It wasn’t just about sitting down to write. It happened in the quiet hours before dawn, in moments of deep reflection, of getting to know each other, of building trust and love. A profound love for the rainforest, for our peoples.

Kamea Chayne: Something that I've been curious about is pushing back against dominant narratives of the so-called most vulnerable communities to climate change. Because I think the more accurate and important framing is communities that are the most in tune and not the most vulnerable, which also presents them as needing to be saved.

So on a similar note, Nemonte, I know you've also shared that, “For my elders and Indigenous peoples across the Amazon. We don't need huge devastating storms, biblical floods, or years-long droughts to notice changes. Our people see and observe small changes before the big weather events that cause headlines and grab attention for the people in the cities around the world."

So with this, I would be interested in hearing your perspectives on this framing of the most vulnerable peoples and what more you can share with us about the smaller changes of concern that your people have been in tune with and have sensed locally.

Nemonte Nenquimo: [In Spanish, with English voiceover by Nathalie Kelley]

For Indigenous peoples, we live in deep connection with the land and the forest, both physically and spiritually. Time for us is not just counted in days, months, or years. It is something we feel and understand through the signs of Mother Earth. She speaks her language, expresses her emotions, and teaches us through these signs.

For example, this year, the trees did not bear the fruits that the monkeys usually eat. The birds did not lay their eggs in December, as they normally do along the riverbanks. These are not just small changes, they are messages from nature, signs of imbalance that we must pay attention to.

As my father says, something is happening. In the rainforest, even the smallest changes are deeply connected—they tell us that something is wrong in the world. Mother Earth is speaking her language. That’s what the elders say, what our grandparents have always known.

We live close to the land. We feel the changes. The outside world only seems to notice when there is a massive hurricane, a devastating flood, or a landslide.

That’s when they say, “Oh, climate change is affecting us”. But for Indigenous peoples, we don’t need to wait for something catastrophic. Even the smallest sign tells us that something is shifting. We have always known how to listen. We must be alert. We must respect and understand Mother Earth and the ways she expresses herself. That’s what I describe in my book. It’s something the outside world often fails to grasp. Indigenous peoples, on the other hand, understand from the smallest signs, from a deeper connection.

So for thousands of years, we have respected Mother Earth, living in harmony with what she provides—the fruits, the gifts of the forest. This is something the world needs to understand. This is why I keep moving forward, why I keep fighting. In my book, I write about these deep connections, how we, as Indigenous peoples, feel and experience the world, and how outsiders perceive it so differently. It is a profound reflection on our bond with nature and our deep connection to spirituality.

Kamea Chayne: I think it was Dr. Tyson Yunkaporta who shared about how anthropology is usually people from the West entering communities of different cultures to study them. And his book was like “reverse anthropology”—looking at Western cultures through his Aboriginal Australian lens.

So I'd be curious to hear what this reverse anthropological lens has felt like for you as well, Nemonte? Now that you've traveled to different cities and parts of the world to engage different organizations and leaders, and communities, what is your perspective on the whole idea of mainstream development and the shiny promises presented to people in cities in terms of monetary wealth and material consumption? People are yearning for something when they buy into these enticing promises.

I'm curious about your views on the type of security these systems promise—whether through the accumulation of money, or as you call it in your language, “tocori” or “worthless paper.” I'm also interested in other forms of security, abundance, and richness that feel more aligned with our hearts and your cultural orientation. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this.

Nemonte Nenquimo: [In Spanish, with English voiceover by Nathalie Kelley]

I have the power to tell my own story, a story of strength, of struggles I have lived in my own body. I have found the courage to break the silence and speak to the world. And the world must learn to respect Indigenous peoples.

Too often, outsiders, whether scientists, anthropologists, or so-called "development experts”, believe they have the answers and their way is the right way.

Many times, an anthropologist will come, wanting to study Indigenous peoples as if they could extract a clear conclusion, a simple result. But our culture does not work that way. In our way of life, a single day can hold a thousand stories.

Every movement, every action carries meaning, whether we are tending to our gardens, fishing, or sitting by the fire, our lives are woven with stories, knowledge, and connection. This is something that only Indigenous peoples truly understand within their nations. Each of us has our way of seeing and responding to the world, our connection to it. This is what outsiders fail to grasp.

That is why I do not feel comfortable with these professionals, these anthropologists, who come in thinking they know everything. The problem is that an anthropologist comes, lives with us for six months or a year, and then writes as if they fully understand how we live. I do not agree with this. The outside world, with its ideas of development and progress, believes that the solution to everything is the economy. But they fail to see the real cost.

They are putting the climate at risk, harming Mother Nature. We need to understand this connection.  Of course, the market, economic growth, and big corporations celebrate these things. But at the same time, they are destroying the planet. The balance of the Earth is being disrupted. That is why Indigenous peoples must teach the world. We must share our knowledge, our spiritual connections, our relationship with nature, how we live, and how we interact with the land.

This knowledge is not just for us, it can help guide the world. If we compare the current model of development with our way of life, we can find a path toward real change. Otherwise, if the world continues on this path of unchecked growth, it will only lead to destruction.

Mother Earth is not waiting to be saved. Indigenous peoples and nature are not asking for rescue. We are simply living in respect and harmony.

We have always had this deep connection, and the world must come to understand that.

Kamea Chayne: Thank you. When Mitch and I spoke over five years ago, he had talked about how important the youth are for the future, but also how the youth have one foot in and one foot out in terms of their relationship with the forest and with mainstream society and ideas of advancement.

And you've also talked about this continued tension between invasion into the Amazon forest and the enticement for people and the youth that often comes with it. So, what more can you share about how this tension has transpired over the last years? And what is your perspective on the importance of younger generations in becoming the leaders of the future, but also the fact that they might be increasingly less rooted and less grounded due to the influences of economic globalization?

Nemonte Nenquimo: [In Spanish, with English voiceover by Nathalie Kelley]

I believe this question is very important. As a woman, I am working to open the world’s eyes, to educate, to raise awareness, to challenge the mindset of consumerism. People must stop and truly rethink the solutions to climate change. At the same time, I am also focused on my people, on healing, on strengthening my community, and guiding the younger generations. We are now at the edge, as I describe in my book.

My grandfather once warned me, “Nemo, be very careful—the tongue of the anaconda is dangerous”. He was speaking about the world’s system, how it can lure you in with money, clothing, fame. But in an instant, like the anaconda’s tongue, it can drain your energy, and in that moment, it kills you.

This is the reality we are living in today. Through my years of leadership, I have come to understand what the elders have told me. They said, “Nemo, what we are doing is important. We are showing the world that we resist.”

Little by little, our elders are passing away. With them, knowledge is being lost - the knowledge to protect, sing, and tell our own stories.

That is why we must create our education. The education imposed from the outside carries the same colonial mindset, the same structures that continue to destroy the forest. Now, we are beginning to build our education. This means that all Indigenous children and youth must grow up with knowledge, with a deep sense of value and connection to their roots. It’s vital to provide young people with the tools they need to learn languages, technology, to be trained in their rights, to defend their identity, their language and territory.

As a woman, I have seen how outside education, the kind that is promoted as “progress,” has destroyed languages, erased cultures, and severed people from their ancestral knowledge—how to plant, how to love and respect Mother Nature. That is why Indigenous peoples need to reclaim and value our identity, our culture, and the wisdom that has protected our lands for thousands of years. This is the work we are doing now, and it is deeply important.

It is also important for the rest of the world. Parents, mothers and fathers must take responsibility. They must teach their children to reconnect spiritually, to love and respect Mother Earth once again. No, we must not teach our children to accumulate plastic, to consume things that harm the earth and our bodies.

In my book, I am describing my own life, how I saved myself. No one saved me. Not the oil companies, not the evangelicals, not the big corporations, or the government. I saved myself by reconnecting with Mother Nature. I returned to my ancestors. I learned to love my people again, to love my community, my roots. That is why I am saving myself. And it is why I am saying this world can be both hell and paradise.

Do you choose to live in joy and harmony, protecting your roots and identity? Or do you choose to lose yourself in a world of sickness, ego, power and money?

These things poison the mind, disconnect us from our culture, and destroy our spirit. So, in my book, I am describing my salvation.

Kamea Chayne: As we look ahead, I would like to explore this idea of modernity. I think so often the word modernity comes with a very subjective imagery and meaning, relating to city life, cars, computers, technologies, and all the things and consumerism associated with urban development. But at the core, “modern” just means related to this present time, and advancement just means the improvement of something.

So I would like to ask, what are the ideals of modernity for your community in the Amazon? And what kind of societal advancements do you dream of that would allow your modern relationships, knowledge, joy, food, medicine, and other forms of abundance to be able to sustain and regenerate far off into the future? What is your modernity? What is your advancement? And what is your future?

Nemonte Nenquimo: [In Spanish, with English voiceover by Nathalie Kelley]

This question is very important, for us, for the future, for my people, and for the world. As Indigenous peoples, we must safeguard our knowledge, our way of life, and our deep wisdom—wisdom that does not disconnect, that does not disappear. The world must learn to respect and listen to Indigenous peoples, to stand with us and support us.

The modern world has its tools, and some of them can be useful. But we do not want outsiders, such as capitalist machines, corporations, or governments, to impose their ways on us, to push us aside, or to claim that their ideas, their solutions, or their systems are the best. No, that is not what we want.

After many years, I have realized that the modern world, the system of so-called “development”, has been erasing Indigenous peoples, our territories, and our knowledge.

The world must learn to respect and listen to our cosmovision, rather than imposing its ways and destroying us, especially our culture and our language.

We reject the ignorance that dismisses our knowledge as unimportant. We do not accept that.

Today, our youth want to speak other languages, use technology, and manage our territories, but always from the foundation of our values, our roots. We can integrate outside tools without losing our identity.

[musical intermission]

Kamea Chayne:  We are starting to come to a close, but Nemonte, I know you've been through a lot with your body, your emotional and spiritual well-being, with your people and with your forest community. And things continue to be challenging in many ways for you and so many people around the globe today.

I'd be curious to hear what it is that continues to bring you joy, grounding and fulfillment, and what is it that keeps you going?

Nemonte Nenquimo: [In Spanish, with English voiceover by Nathalie Kelley]

I believe that joy comes from not staying silent. Joy is speaking the truth, breaking that silence. It heals your soul, your heart, and your mind. And in doing so, you become stronger, both personally and spiritually. My culture, my grandmothers, and my family have always told me, the forest is still virgin, still healthy. We are happy, we are at peace. But if the forest falls ill, if it becomes contaminated, then we, as women, as Indigenous peoples, will also fall ill.

As they say, the Mother shows us everything that exists in the forest. We, as women, are the body of the Earth. Just as we must care for and respect a woman’s body, because we give life, we must also care for and respect the land, the forest, because it gives us life. It gives us air, oxygen, food, and water.

This is why it is so important to decide to choose healing. One must learn to let go of trauma, to allow life to flow, to bloom each day with joy, with an open mind, with spiritual strength. We must allow ourselves to smile, to recognize that the past has passed, and to embrace each day as an opportunity to flourish. Every day, we must choose, because that choice lies within each of us.

If we do not love our bodies, how can we love another person? How can we love our Mother Earth?

If we are disconnected from ourselves, we are even more distant from her [Mother Earth]. This is my answer. My spirituality, my path to healing, is about finding harmony within oneself, opening the way to joy, about choosing to smile.

Kamea Chayne: Well, as we start to wrap up here, I know you talk about the beauty of live oral storytelling, how that format allows stories to stay alive. So as we wind down, what guidance and calls to action would you like to offer to our listeners? And how do you hope that your words, whether through your book or this recorded interview, can be allowed to live and stay alive far beyond this static recording?

Nemonte Nenquimo: [In Spanish, with English voiceover by Nathalie Kelley]

What I am trying to say is this: My story is here. I am certain that people need to learn this, to understand the importance of respecting Indigenous peoples and Mother Nature. Each of us must break the silence to grow stronger. Focus on healing, wherever you are—within your family, your community, your work.

I hope I am allowed to live freely and to flow as I am. I hope to touch hearts. I know that women all over the world suffer in different ways. I hope my book, We Will Not Be Saved, reaches them and touches their hearts, inspires change, and strengthens them as they enter a new stage of life.

 
kamea chayne

Kamea Chayne is a creative, writer, and the host of Green Dreamer Podcast.

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