Willow Defebaugh Of Atmos: Exploring the intricate balance between the flourishing and decay of life (podcast interview)
William Defebaugh (now named Willow) is the editor of the environmental magazine Atmos (@atmos), a storyteller, and an astrology teacher who's passionate about using ancient practices to understand nature as the divine mirror.
In this podcast episode, Willow sheds light on what it means to understand nature as a divine mirror; what we can learn from the inevitable relationship between decay and growth in the living world; and more.
To start, get a glimpse below into the conversation between Willow and Green Dreamer Podcast's host, Kamea Chayne.
Musical feature: Trust The Sun by The Fruitful Darkness by Trevor Hall (@TrevorHallMusic)
“How can we possibly expect wholeness to not include justice on every front: racial justice, social justice, and environmental justice?”
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This is a conversation on Green Dreamer with Kamea Chayne, a podcast and multimedia journal illuminating our paths towards ecological regeneration, intersectional sustainability, and true abundance and wellness for all. This preview has been edited for clarity. Subscribe to Green Dreamer Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any podcast app, and support Green Dreamer on Patreon so we can keep the show going and accessible to all!
On our crisis of separation:
"The true crisis that we're dealing with is the crisis of separation. I think everything really boils down to this one idea, which is us thinking we're separate from nature, but also that we think all of these problems are separate from one other.
In my own journey, I really came to understand that sustainability and healing are really interchangeable words. We're talking about creating a return to wholeness.
How can we possibly expect wholeness to not include justice on every front: racial justice, social justice, and environmental justice?
They're all expressions of this feeling or this idea of separation—that we're separate from one another, that we're separate from nature. So we have to go to the root of that separateness to work on healing any of these problems."
On bringing in art and storytelling to climate literacy:
"When I was considering why more people weren't paying attention to climate science, I [thought about how] the information was always presented in a scientific way—with good reason.
But I thought, ‘What would happen if we connected the artists and the great storytellers of today to this information that so desperately needed to reach people?’
So that experiment or hypothesis is really how Atmos began. To me, the heart of that idea is that this is a movement that requires absolutely every single one of us. It doesn't require everyone to be perfect; it requires everyone to be involved and trying and paying attention."
On the power of behavioral change:
"Mirror neurons were essentially discovered by a team of scientists in Italy when they were studying the brains of two different monkeys.
They realized that when one monkey was eating a banana and the other monkey was watching the first monkey eat the banana, the exact same parts of both of their brains lit up at the same time—even though the second monkey didn't have a banana to eat.
What this proved to them was that when we watch behavioral change, we internalize it in a very real way.
That is such a source of strength for me in understanding the power of watching other people change, what happens when we change individually, and how that is mirrored in other people."
Final words of wisdom:
"Keep thinking of yourself as a mirror, and keep thinking about what it is that you're mirroring to other people within your life. Give yourself a chance to create the change on that individual level."
